Mat Lock
Jayson, welcome to The Unleashing Potential Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you on here. How you doing at your end.
Jayson Krause
Thanks, Matt. It's great to be here. I'm doing great. Winters here, but we're hanging in there.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. And tell us whereabouts in the world are you?
Jayson Krause
I am just outside of Calgary, Alberta, up in Canada.
Mat Lock
Beautiful. And I know that you and I talked about it when we first chatted the scenery behind you. Tell us just tell us quickly for those who are watching this on YouTube, what the scenery is about behind you.
Jayson Krause
So this is the view outside my office. I'm not in my office right now. But when COVID forced us out of our office, I took a view outside my window. And, and this is my backdrop. So at least when I'm on zoom all day, it somewhat feels like I'm I'm in my home space.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. I'm guessing that cityscape of Calgary where your offices go. That's right. looks beautiful. I'm glad that when you took the photo, the sun was shining just for those listening on the podcast.
Jayson Krause
I do have a couple photo options. So one on a cloudy day one on a sunny day.
Mat Lock
depends on your mood. Now very good. So when you look at your leadership strategist, he likes to help businesses disrupt and accelerate a new breed of meaningful leadership. And I'm keen to dive into that a little Yeah, in a few minutes. But first, if you can just tell us a little bit about your background. And you've got quite an interesting background and we're really excited to share that with the listeners.
Jayson Krause
Yeah, you know, it really my passion for high performance. I played American football. And when I transitioned from American football and and somehow found myself in a crazy sport of bobsled, winter sport racing around tracks, and, and I just I Funny enough, I just stepped into bobsled. I went to a camp to become a better football player. Because I heard bobsled was great training for power and speed. And here I was I tested Well, I got scooped up into a team. And it turned into an eight year career.
Mat Lock
Wow. That's amazing. Isn't it how these things work? And I guess I'm here in Australia. Joining a bobsled team isn't something you'd naturally think of doing but it makes more sense where you are in the world. Of course
Jayson Krause
it is. But you know, funny enough. one of Canada's best bobsled pilots for the last few Olympics is an is an Ozzy. Right. He started his bobsled career for the with the Australian bobsled team and then became a Canadian citizen.
Mat Lock
Fantastic. Well, look, I'm interested that that wasn't only the I guess the only that was an unexpected transition to an eight year career, which was amazing and a successful career at that. But as well that kind of paved the way for what you do now, isn't it?
Jayson Krause
Yeah, you know, one of the one of the great things is being on tour, sometimes I'd leave home for six weeks, two months at a time, you'd have a hockey bag full of clothes. And then I'd bring a massive bag of books and when you're on tour you you train you compete. But then a lot of the idle time I would just consume book after book and there was another athlete on the US team came a great friend was one of the one of the best man at my wedding. He was competing at the same time. And we would talk about the the principles that we were exposed to as athletes. And we'd also both read up on the latest science. And when we were competing, and after I retired, we kept speaking about like, how do we get these principles out into a digestible format that can help leadership in business. And that's really where the seeds were planted. Steve went on Steve masters his name, he went on to win a gold medal at the Vancouver Olympics in 2010. And and then we sort of embarked on this journey.
Mat Lock
Yeah, which is an incredible journey. Now I know that that journey is included, offering a couple of books, the first being 52 people connecting with life through strangers. And I know that your your business, you're the founder at level 52. I'm intrigued to know what the 52 relates to actually. It
Jayson Krause
you might have heard this statement you overestimate what you can do in a day, and you underestimate what you can do in a year. Yep. And with level 52 we employ video game mechanics as a principle for help lead to help leaders understand that if you're a leader in business is because you've likely been a high achiever and so you expect so much out of yourself. Well, level 52 is simply when we're working with leaders. Let's help you identify the areas that you want to win. Hands your performance in. And let's create a yearly a year long roadmap. If every week you seek to uplevel, this skill, just micro progress, micro progress over 52 weeks will get you to level 52 in a year. And so it's about giving them a structured format to focus on what's important to just make those micro up levels every week.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. Absolutely. Thank you also, yeah, that was something that piques my interest, especially having seen the title of your first book, and, and the book that you're on, congratulations on your second book, which is, at the time of recording this about to go live to the world, the science behind success. There's a common theme here. And yeah, if you could just talk to us about what the intention of the science behind success book is, who's it aimed at? And what's the what are the overarching messages, let's see.
Jayson Krause
The initial reason for doing this is early on, when Steve and I got into the consulting world, we noticed that leadership development was happening. But not a lot of leadership development impact was happening, people would show up for courses, and they'd go through the motions, and then what would inevitably happen, they'd get sucked back into the vortex of meetings and emails, and all the time and money that they spent was simply wasted. And so we thought, like, how do we? How do we make leadership development better? And part of the barrier that we saw was, how do you make leadership makes sense, where it's not just this fluffy, nebulous concept that's full of soft skills that don't work? But how do you give the scientific underpinnings as an entry point, so that they can embrace their leadership and see it in a different way?
Mat Lock
Yeah, sure, nothing? Yeah, absolutely. And I love the logic of love the logic behind the science behind success in its creation, I'd be really interested to hear your take on what leadership is maybe just to calibrate us and the audience, but also, you have the term meaningful leadership. And again, that's something that when I was doing my homework, before we chatted, that was like, I'm actually intrigued to dig into what that actually means. And leadership often is sent in a larger organization. It's almost dictated by hierarchy. And I think that's, you know, you're in a leadership position, that doesn't mean that you're leading, or a leader, you're just in an organization chart, find necessity to organize the structure of a business. But Tim, maybe let's start with how you how you would explain to someone what meaningful leadership is.
Jayson Krause
Let's start with flat leadership. And in our programs, in when we get groups together, one of the first things we do is, hey, what's your definition of leadership? And certainly, when everyone starts sharing their definition of leadership, out of a group of 30 people, how many definitions are the same? None are identical. Yeah, exactly. There might be some things that have similarities. But this is exactly the point. Part of the problem is people pursue the definition of leadership, when really part of meaningful leadership is them by the end of their journey that they can clearly define, without a doubt, what leadership is to them. And that's what matters, intentionality, clarity, around the impact you want to have the way you want to lead. that's meaningful leadership. You see, many people get thrust into a leadership position in business, they have power, budget authority. But if you're like me, you've seen many of those people. And the last thing you would consider them is leaders. They're experts who know how to manage a spreadsheet. And so part of this whole concept is waking up this sleepy subject matter expert to understand truly what is it to lead? What are the mechanism, the mechanisms to influence and engage people? And how do you look through a different lens to create a meaningful impact that transcends the budget, the PnL and some of the intangible items?
Mat Lock
Yeah, for sure. I turn to your question. Absolutely. I can relate. I 20 plus years and senior corporate type roles and absolutely the classic, classic mistake. Let's say it that way, that I certainly observed, which I think is pretty common with that someone's done a really good has done a particular job really well. And the natural expectation is that they then move up the ladder, let's say that the next rung of the ladder, and at some stage for sure, that meant into some sort of leadership position, but that doesn't mean they're in any way equipped to, to be in that position. It may be that actually, they don't even enjoy that position, and what the responsibilities and requirements of those jobs actually demand. Let's see. And I've seen some very unhappy people in leadership positions where actually, they either they have moved themselves or have been moved back into a different style of roll one that's not got the leadership weight around it. And yeah, they thrive again, literally thrive again. And yeah, I'm certainly intrigued by the the meaningful leadership, I actually love that. I wouldn't hear you. Um, I mean, it's, I can speak from experience taking a roomful of leaders and getting the baggage left at the door to a point where you can then have some good open learning that has impact, it's not always so easy. Sometimes the egos have to get checked at the door.
Jayson Krause
Here's how we frame it. And it creates context around what the science behind success is. And we we start by giving an example and telling the story of ignaz Semmelweis, if you're, if you're familiar with that story, ignaz Semmelweis in the 1800s saw problem, too many women were dying when they were giving birth inside of clinics at the time. In fact, a significant amount of women were dying while giving birth in clinics compared to when they would be with midwives. He obsessed over the problem, found a repeatable solution and then published his findings. His publications were mocked, he was ostracized from the community and committed to an insane asylum. What was the preposterous conclusion that he made? All physicians had to do was wash their hands. Now, his findings were later confirmed by Louis pasture and the germ theory. But why we frame that to introduce the science behind success, one, good science. And there's bad science, bad science is the validation of your own ideas and your ego. Whereas science at its purest is the pursuit of greater understanding. And so if you imagine as an expert in a business, oftentimes you're seeking to validate your ideas and appraise things based on what you knew. But in this case, here's the irony, and it relates to responsibility. The irony in this situation is these physicians that rejected similar vices hypothesis. Ironically, were the ones infecting the situation that we're trying to solve. And so we ask every leader, if you want to make this a productive journey in our program, first, you have to understand and examine that many of the situations that you're trying to solve, are the ones that you might be infecting right now.
Mat Lock
Yeah, brilliant. And confronting, I'm guessing and watching what's the general response to that? Well, we haven't had anyone drop out of the programs yet. I'm assuming there's a obviously an understanding and acceptance of the validity of the example given, but it's often hard to then look in the mirror and see. See yourself, you know, with a similar example, you know, different subject matter. But nonetheless,
Jayson Krause
it is, and it truly is the only productive place to stand from if you're in the program and you want to develop, there are two qualities if we boil it down. If there's an ideal leader that we want to work to work with they, they embody two qualities one, a hunger, and it's the same with an athlete. They have the hunger to be better to make a bigger impact in their business with their team. They hunger for that high performance. And then the second age is humility. They they understand that they don't have all the answers, nor do they have to. So if they're willing to show up vulnerable with humility, then that's where we can make great stuff happen.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm guessing a lot of that falls under the banner of mindset. Here, we're talking about a mindset in this case of the leader or in other leaders in the program, who then go back out into the world and approach it maybe from a different angle. But the How do you help? I mean, mindset obviously is as relevant in business as it is in sport as it in play. And that's how our mindset really drives everything in our lives. And I'm interested to hear how in level 52, how you go about helping to reframe some of the key drivers for people's mindset to help them self manage their mindset differently.
Jayson Krause
Yeah, everything cascades from your mindset, and we introduce it through our first pillar in the science behind success, and that's hypertrophy. We know hypertrophy as no pain, no gain. But the real definition of hypertrophy is that when a muscle is subjected to stress or resistance, it adapts by growing and that the physiological level but it also happens at the psychological level when we're when we're subjected to stress resistance. We adapt by growing and so we introduced Carol Dweck, mindset growth and fixed but really we take it deeper and introduced two principles around the mindset for leaders. One is meaningful masochism. great leaders are meaningful masochists. The same way. great athletes are meaningful masochists. They deliberately engage in the pain on the path towards the vision that inspires though.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. No, no direct parallels for sure. That sounds very powerful. I mean, this is a Did you say it was a 12 month program? I'm wondering 12 weeks, 12 weeks, okay. Okay. So, and you start with mindset. And I guess that that isn't necessary, because it forms the foundation of everything else that is to come.
Jayson Krause
And we start with mindset for a couple of reasons, one, so that they can reorient and reframe around it pains in their environment, that it's inherent. There is going to be pain in turbulence, you're working with people and people are challenging, quirky, and unpredictable. And so reframing all of the pains in your environments important. And so one of the things that we have leaders do is break it down into what we call a CSP inventory. Imagine three columns give you permission to list out all of the petty complaints in irritation Do you have everything from Matt doesn't clean up the dishwasher and the staff room to so and so shows up late to they're always on their phone in meetings, like all of the irritations and complaints. And then you go through the column and list out all of the pains, the stressors that keep you up at night. These are often the unanswered questions. And then the last one, are those real hard, deep pains, the ones that shook the foundation of you and your professional career, often that have regrets things that you didn't do. And when you list these out, you can see, you know, oftentimes those complaints and irritations unaddressed, will compound and grow into more nasty ailments. The stressors are simply problems to be solved and the pains are your wisdom. Like these are your battle scars that then you can leverage moving forward.
Mat Lock
So powerful. And I'm yeah, I'm guessing I'm gonna add of a 12 week program. How long do you reckon round numbers to spend on mindset? How do you find that it takes to get the participant ready to then receive the rest of the program and move on?
Jayson Krause
We spend about the first three weeks on elements of mindset. prepare them for a 360 when you talk about confronting, we have a 360 that's designed to get the whole the cold, hard truth. Like Yes, we highlight some strengths, but also we highlight what are people irritated with? What are the things they wish to do differently? All of these things so that you can get a clear snapshot as to what your brand is. We've all got a brand. Most people don't develop an intentional one. And but you've got one. So what is the watercooler chat and what do people say about you? And we lead
Mat Lock
x in tandem had the watercooler chat. It's quite a good litmus test, isn't it?
Jayson Krause
It is, you know, it's funny in the world that we live in today around like the world of the virus. Viral contagion has been a part of our model for 10 years and that leaders have to understand that they are walking viruses, the words they speak the actions They express, operate in the same contagion cycles as a virus does. everyone around you and your business is a susceptible host. And as a leader, you're a walking billboard that advertises how to be successful. So if you're an ass, if you react when people make mistakes, you're basically teaching people through behavioral contagion, that this is how you be a successful leader here. And so when we, when we frame that as context, people look at their 360, and they go, Oh, shit, what do I do to start meetings? What do I do in these situations, and that right, there is the starting point where people can go, I want to be different.
Mat Lock
Now, when that leads, I guess we're talking here about influence as well as the influence that leaders have over for everyone they come into contact with, at the end of the day, from whoever it is, wherever in the building, they work, it makes no difference and including external suppliers, third party contractors and the like. And I know influence is certainly one of the avenues would you call it that one of the pillars behind the science behind success? And what what do you do and try and impart around the topic of influence one, so let's presume there were, were three or four weeks into the 12 week program. And we now have a group of leaders who have had their 360s. There, they've managed to reframe elements of their mindset, and they're ready to receive let's see, how do you then introduce the idea of influence and how they can have positive influence in their environment.
Jayson Krause
We introduced it through the concept of mimetics, and behavioral contagion, that viral cycle. And we invite them to understand that you're always spreading viruses, there are viruses that create critical momentum towards your desired vision. And there are viruses that you spread that create cancerous downward spirals, that physiologically make your people less resourceful, and less productive. And then we introduced the concept of brands, just like any, any brand that we choose to engage with, from fashion to airlines, people operate the same way. They think things, they feel things, they say things and they take actions based on how they experience us. Once we understand those building blocks of a brand, then we get leaders in the place of developing their intentional brand moving forward. If I'm with you, in a difficult meeting, maybe we're peers and you don't even report to me. My intentionality as a meaningful leader is I'm going into this meeting with a specific impact I want to create. And when I walked out of this, even though you and you and me might not see eye to eye, I want you to be able to consistently describe me with three words, passionate, present, this is my brand, by the way, passionate present, and pushing the boundaries of what's possible. You may not love me, but you're going to consistently get the same me in our one on ones. And that's what we want the bar for our leaders is to have that extreme intentionality.
Mat Lock
Yeah, that's awesome. Absolutely, I've never actually thought about it that way, you're at the individual brand, I have to say. And that makes a lot of sense. And that also leads into one of the other pillars, of course, which is culture, I mean, the way that leaders behave, and the influence they have, ultimately helps to either change or create a desirable culture and a business. And unfortunately, a lot of business don't have great cultures. We know that. But some do, some have an amazing culture. And I'd love to hear your thoughts around what helps to create a culture of high engagement, high performance, high energy, I'd love to hear thoughts around that.
Jayson Krause
The third element of science that we introduce is the drop back for culture is to understand epigenetics, that there are all inputs that influence expression. And there are multiple layers of culture that a leader is responsible for, to truly be a culture custodian. And the first culture that you have to own is your own. And the culture that we talk about is your skin covered petri dish that you walk to work with every day, which you think about the inputs, you may have heard the statement garbage in, garbage out, right. So
Mat Lock
that's that. That's one version of it.
Jayson Krause
Right and so your your inputs, whether you look at your diet, Sleep, your mindset, these all determine the way that I show up. And then guess what? That everything cascades from that. And so I bring inputs into my relationships, whether it's clear direction, inspiring message, empathetic listening, like all of those inputs that inform our relationship, and everything cascades from there. Any organizational culture is the mosaic of these micro layers of culture. So, when it comes to being a culture custodian, it's really understanding what are the inputs that we know create a desired expression? organizationally, we all have our DNA, right? DNA is the same every day Matt and Jayson go to work. But yet, here's the fascinating thing if you if you look through a metaphorical lens of epigenetics, a caterpillar cocoon butterfly have the same DNA, identical, but yet remarkably different expressions into the world. And so if you look at those three things in isolation, if you label them as the truth, you would always say that this DNA is either slow and sloppy. This DNA is shut off from the world in isolation, or this DNA is a brilliant expression. But there are days where you and me both show up slow and sloppy, what are those situations or conditions or shut off, or a greater socialized expression? It's up to us as leaders to understand for ourselves, the individuals on our team, our team and organization, how we get the greater expression, and it and it's all upstream. upstream actions, like the inputs that we're putting into our environment. I'll give you a specific example. How many businesses have you walked into that you see the values on the wall? Right, you see them on the front, the front counter, but yet, if I go into a meeting with an executive, I say, hey, what are the values of your organization? How many executives would squirm and go
oh,
and they might get one, right? It's a great example that a little input that can make a big difference, our leaders that are custodians of the culture through always seeking ways to incorporate the values into their messages, you no matter what you did, right, there is a great example of our value of collaboration, or integrity. And if you make the values a part of your culture through weaving it and creating narratives about them, then you're gonna start to see more of it.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. I know what what you're describing takes a huge amount of intention. Certainly, before it becomes a habit, let's say before, there's muscle memory wrapped around it. And you're right, like he said, at the beginning of our chat, it's most common for management or leadership seminars and workshops and programs. In the moment, everyone's engaged in their learning and their their intentions are great. But upon return, return to the normal working environment, it's rapidly becomes like running in syrup, before there's a downward trajectory and is back to life as normal, so much white noise going on. So how do you help delegates, the participants in your program, to, to maintain to create and maintain those intentions, because that's the only way that lasting change will occur. And we're talking about changing culture, it takes time, and consistency to achieve that, in any organization, large or small.
Jayson Krause
We know when someone isn't going to do something, you know, imagine in one of our sessions or sessions or like to our virtual workouts fast paced, they exercise something. And we always instruct them right after our session, trying to have a one on one meeting with one of your team members or a colleague like just trying to organize your schedule that way. And after a session, if someone has a big insight around a tool, a skill, we say, okay, when are you going to use this? And they go all the time? Okay, well, that's an indicator that they're going to use it now's the time, right? It's helping them identify specific areas in their upcoming schedule that they can get the reps and that's part of it is part of by design, why we have them set up a meeting right after so then the discussion changes and we go, how specifically Are you going to use this tool or skill in the meeting that's coming up. So now they can start to visualize envision it and immediately get reps and then reflect on their x sighs one of the greatest gifts that COVID has provided us, we used to do full day multiple day training sessions. As soon as we broke it out into a 12 week program two hours a week, the product got significantly better, and the impact was far greater.
Mat Lock
It's interesting, isn't it? Um, how would you explain that? I'm not surprised by that. But it just making it more condensed, more focused.
Jayson Krause
I, in in my upcoming book, we speak about the forgetting curve, in that there's a reality that it within 20 minutes, you've forgotten so much of the content that you absorb. Because it's if we just sit there in absorb mode, we have fleeting moments, we scribble notes, it's great, it's great, it's great. But we don't really have the capacity to remember so much. And so three days in a row two days in a row one full day. What do we what do we tend to do in our in our world, in the learning and development world jam people full of content, it satiate them, they feel good, it's what they want, but it's not what they need. And so now by spreading it out, you have two hours every Tuesday or Wednesday, Thursday, you learn a specific tool, a deep dive, you find out how I apply it my way. And then you identify your rep opportunities before the next session. We practice makes perfect permanent.
Mat Lock
Yep. Absolutely. Interestingly, therefore, and let's pretend next week, there was 100% successful vaccine available for free to everyone on the planet. Just argument's sake, literally the results you've seen since COVID. And and changing the format of the program, you would retain that you'd stay with that format. On that basis.
We moving forward our virtual leadership fitness company.
Mat Lock
Yeah. And that's not a case of just trying to be pandemic proof. That's because you've seen better results.
Jayson Krause
Well, think about it from a business perspective, a value perspective. Pre COVID, we were in Chicago, New York, Houston, San Francisco, Singapore, delivering work, putting miles on airplanes, carbon footprint, working with people in a geo location. Whereas now you come into one of our sessions. You've got people from Google in San Francisco, the head office of Home Depot, you've got like in Atlanta, you've got people from all across the continent, the world, from different industries, different leaders, the collaboration, the network building, the sharing, is just it's so much more value.
Mat Lock
And highly efficient. For everyone, yeah. Which I think is highly appreciated by everyone who most people for sure. Look, I think Prieto we did, it was often the case. I know video conferencing, it's not the same as the real thing. You need to look someone in the eye and be able to shake their hand. And I was never a I'm very human centric. No question. But I that was never my experience with video calls. And I think now we have a world that certainly a lot of the world that is now that very, very well educated about how to how to live a life, let's say a working life through literally through a different lens. And I yeah, I can see how that would be highly effective. And certainly for our business the same. I mean, at the end of the day, yes, we have in person events, which we hope to continue with after the pandemic. But for sure, we've been forced to take an element of it online. And without question, there are advantages to that for everyone, not just from our side. So it the same philosophy works in a number of different business environments. But certainly when we talk about and I'm conscious of time, when we talk about creating highly engaged environments. You know, one of the one of the observations we make here is in a Western Bay games, for example, you know, an in person, sports event, or even just our sort of daily training, which there's nothing that's sexy or dignified about it is just training but the camaraderie and team spirit that we all get from sweating, suffering, but smiling together. That that creates some pretty magical bonds, bonds that you hear of from people maybe in defense or emergency services, that that kind of those kind of bonds. And you take those same people and pop them in a business or a work environment and Many businesses struggle to recreate that same sense of camaraderie team spirit, connection collaboration. And I'd love to close for us today to hear your thoughts about how to create highly engaged environments so that it's not only the leaders, of course, leaders are there trying to get every member of the team to flourish, and to put their best foot forward and to, to create an environment where everyone wants to be there. And they want to do their best for the common good.
Jayson Krause
If we really simplify it, clear goals, clear roles. Like that's, that's one of the things in sports. We know what the finish line is. We know what creates points. We know what my job is and what your job is. And those things when we talk about elements of meaningful leadership, little things make the biggest difference, where most people seek the magic bullet for engagement for performance. and meaningful leaders understand that it's always the littlest things that make the biggest difference. And so what everyone else steps over seeking something more grand or technical, here's what meaningful leaders do. You and I start work today in a professional environment. Hey, Matt, let's get really clear. I'm going to write on this whiteboard, what my job is and what your job is, I want you to do the same on that whiteboard. Let's take five minutes, and then let's see where each other stack. And people who've worked together for five, six years, you'd be shocked at some of the things that they are completely looking at through different lenses. And so a simple rule. And this in itself can create engagement. It's, again, one of the first things we do in our programs. If I'm the facilitator, and you're in my program, okay, what, what's my job as the facility facilitator, you tell me the job, I seek to get clear about what you mean? Like, okay, what's your job? One of the things people always say is my job is to be engaged.
Mat Lock
I go, Okay, well,
Jayson Krause
what I know you're engaged, what would I see you doing? What would I hear you saying? What are the actions that you'd be taking? Okay, that's helpful. What do you what do you want me to do if I don't see you doing those things? Like, these are all really simple things map but so effective. Now people are like, Oh, shit, exactly, this is what I have to do. Because I just said, This is what my job is. And so now I'm just I'm just holding shining the mirror as to what you said, you want it to show up as. And so there's getting curious about it. And then, like just a simple framework of let's get clear about whose job is what, that's one element. And there are many elements that that make up a high performing team. But if you start with this one, that in itself is going to make a big difference in a professional environment.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for such a clear answer. I appreciate it very much. Jayson, I could talk to you all day, and in your case all night, but I am conscious of time. Great discussion. And I know that our audience are gonna love every moment of it. And that if they wanted to get in touch with you, or for sure, by the time this goes to where the science behind success book will be released. I know I'm on the waiting list already. Where would they go? And how would they get in touch with you? And how would they get a copy of the book and all the good stuff? Now?
Jayson Krause
they can they can find me they can find all the work that we're up to at level 50 two.ca
Mat Lock
sure, granted the book as well. Everything said book as well. Yeah, super simple. Excellent. Well, look, thank you again, for being so generous with your time I wish you the best of luck with not not luck. But as any year where that comes to mind with the success of your new book and congratulations again with that. Appreciate you being you and appreciate everything you're bringing to the world. And on that note, I'll bid you farewell and thank you so much. Thank you, man. It's great to be here. Appreciate it.
