Mat Lock
Melanie, welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here. How are you doing it?
Melanie Gibson
I’m doing well. Thanks so much for having me on your show, Matt.
Mat Lock
No, not at all. And before we start have to say congratulations on authoring your book, kicking and screaming, and of course, we're going to dive in and find out much more about that book. But before we do, I'd love for you to tell our audience a little bit about yourself. Who, who are you, Melanie, what's your backstory?
Melanie Gibson
Okay, so I can tell by my accent, I live in Texas in the United States. I live in the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex, which is one of the big metropolitan areas of the state. And I've lived here since college, but I grew up in the western part of the state. I'm a rural small town girl living in the big city. So I love the arts, I love music, I love martial arts. And so that that's me personally, professionally, I've worked in the healthcare industry. For nearly 20 years, I started out as a medical librarian. That was career number one, and one of our hospitals. So I did research for patients, nurses, doctors, all the clinical staff. And then I needed a change. And I moved into our training and development department. And that's what I've been in for the last 10 years. So I do things like design classes, teach workshops, a little bit of leadership coaching. So it's a mix. And of course, that's been very interesting working for a healthcare company for a pandemic for nearly two years. So it's been an interesting, interesting ride.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. And when was the I guess, your book, I'm kicking and screaming, it's a memoir, memoir of madness, and martial arts, which still makes me smile. I think it's something fantastic title and subtitle. How long ago did you finish writing that memoir?
Melanie Gibson
I finished writing it because the book has never really done, probably when I did the final edits about this year, early 2021. But I really started it around early 2015. Most of the book takes place between 2013 and 2015, when I restarted my taekwondo training, and was getting ready for my black belt test, so that's when I had the idea to start writing the book. And I probably finished a draft in about nine months, that year. And then I worked on it off and on, I learned how to write queries and pitch to agents and publishers and things like that. So I did that for a few years. And then I finally got hooked up with my publisher, she writes press in 2019. So it's always been a work in progress. I would say if I were going to do another book a second time around, I'd probably hire an editor and a copy editor way earlier into the process. So yeah, if I could go back and tweak some things now, I probably would, but they won't let me.
Mat Lock
Oh, your book, you can do whatever you want. For sure you can second edition coming up. Which you mentioned Taekwondo, obviously, that's heavily embedded within the title of your book. And you began at a very early age and then took some time off. So just talk you through the taekwondo journey. And I guess what's interesting after 20 plus years of coming back to that also that the motivation of what it was it brought you back, but you have 110 years old, when you were pregnant.
Melanie Gibson
I was about 10 years old. And for some reason that I can't remember I told my parents that I wanted to learn karate. I was not an athletic kid. I was a very good swimmer. My dad was a high school and collegiate swimmer. And he taught me so I've been in the water since I was a baby. And that's about the only sport I was good at did not like physical education class. I could not play team sports very well basketball or volleyball or any of that. But for some reason, I wanted to do karate. I don't know if I even seen the Karate Kid. I was just aware of it. And I thought it looked cool. So it turns out in my little town, there wasn't a karate school, but there was a taekwondo school. And Taekwondo is a Korean martial art. It's very similar to karate. I think if you look back far enough, they have very similar the same lineage. So it's based on striking, kicking, punching, blocking, sparring, things like that. So we went to watch a class and I was a little apprehensive at first because I really didn't think my parents would make good on it. And so we went to watch a class and I was enamored with it. I thought it was magical. I loved it. It it was just so exciting. And so we took class as a family, my dad mom and my younger brother and I took class for probably two years or so and I really loved it. I grew to really dread the sparring part of it, the fighting part of it, not because I was afraid of being hit, but I think I was just I was a pretty high strung, anxious child anyway, and it can be stressful and I didn't know what to do and I just froze up. And I really didn't like that part of it. I like it now, but didn't like it as a kid. And so things just happened around when I was 12. I started junior high. So next level of school and my dad changed jobs. And, you know, life just happened and we stopped going. I got into other interests, I got into theater and band and, you know, went on to high school, and he just had other interests. So it had always been something I was fond of, in the back of my mind. It was, you know, something I did as a kid I enjoyed, but I never really thought I would do it again. And so I get into my 20s and 30s. And meanwhile, this full time, mental illness has been plaguing me that started feeling things like depression and anxiety at a very young age, an eating disorder took over at about age 13. I never addressed it because I was a perfectionist and just thought that's something you didn't talk about. It's just something you stuffed down and dealt with and went to school and work and pretended it didn't happen. So I got to a point where I just couldn't take what my mind was doing anymore. I was making terrible relationship choices. My moods were very volatile, I was becoming more and more dependent on alcohol to get me through every night. And so it by this point, this was about 2013, I was maybe 32. I was seeing a psychiatrist, I was seeing a therapist. So I had a baseline for my mental health. I wasn't suicidal. So I wasn't in imminent danger. But I was still in danger of just just wrecking my life and making myself miserable. And so I thought, I've got to do something really drastic to stop me in my tracks to give me a distraction, to give me something positive and wholesome and healthy to focus on. And I've remembered the time I've been in this little short lived relationship with some guy and I'd said to my mom, you know, if this doesn't work out, maybe I'll go back to taekwondo. And I didn't really think much of it. Well, that relationship didn't work out. And so I was making myself miserable every night crying, lonely, feeling sorry for myself. And I just thought, why not start now. So I've discovered through a little internet searching that my instructors and was Texas reported up to a grandmaster, so a higher ranking Taekwondo instructor than then they had trained with him. And he operated his school here in Fort Worth, where I live, which was very close to Dallas in the north Texas area. I didn't really pay attention to that when I was kid. But I remembered him he used to come to tests and tournaments. And he was very kind of an imposing old Korean man. So very intimidating. But I've found his school about five miles from my house about okay, my search is done. I'm going to start training with him. And I did, I started and it wasn't like it was an overnight change. But it was I felt the positivity pretty quickly. Just getting out of the house, changing up my routine, giving something to focus on and over time I built friendships, I built a community, and my self confidence and self actualization just soared.
Mat Lock
Yeah, which is great to hear. So how long has that been? You've been actively back into taekwondo without eating yourself.
Melanie Gibson
That's Oh, I don't mind aging myself. I think all my injuries age me. So that was 2013. And so that was about let's see, that was, what, seven or eight years ago. So I'm 42. Now I'll just go ahead and age myself. So it's about 33. When I started, I'm 42. Now, and it keeps me young ish. But it also shows me where it hurts. So, so yeah, about seven or eight years active back in back into practice.
Mat Lock
Yeah, look, I know, look, I appreciate you being so candid, and generous and vulnerable, and talking about your struggles with mental health. And it's not uncommon that finding, finding our way back to or for the first time maybe into a sport and some sort of physical activity, physical and mental activity that helps with that. Both in terms of structure, as you say, lifestyle behaviors, changing, routine structure, community, focus, all of those things, which you said you found and still find with Taekwondo. I'm interested. How, if you're happy to share, how is your has that affected your mental health in very practical terms, I mean, you, you said that you were previously you're just making bad choices, perhaps in your relationships, for example, and in life generally. Now that you've been actively back into a sport that you're passionate about, and it's giving you focus and all of those things, has that it? Has it helped your mental health to evolve.
Melanie Gibson
I think in one way, it's helped me be less hard on myself. So when you have something like an eating disorder, that's something I've been recovering from this year is that you tend to be a perfectionist and you're very tough on yourself. You have to be perfect at everything. You have to be perfect in school and work and your appearance, and everything else. And so it's interesting when you practice taekwondo there is a bit of perfectionism to sport as well as juncture is the same for many sports, as you're constantly striving to be better, you're constantly striving to learn something new, and if not perfect something than master something. So, in learning that though, I was able to undo some unhealthy thinking patterns of really judging myself heartless, harshly thinking, you know, oh, I'm a bad person, because I can't do this movement perfectly. And I stopped doing that I got a lot of positive feedback from my instructors. And that was, it's kind of a safe place to fail. That's what I like about sports says that it's a safe place to fail, is that, you know, if you lose a match, or you lose a game or something, that's it, you lost a game, no one, no one died, you didn't lose all your money, you didn't lose your house. So it's a safe place to learn about yourself and to learn and grow and fail when you need to. And then celebrate your triumphs when you have them. So in kind of relearning how to learn, I realized that it's okay to not be perfect as you have a lot of plateaus and setbacks in a sport to have plenty of those. And then I would get over that hump, whatever that was, and progress, and then go back a little bit and then progress. And so in seeing that seeing, well, the world's not going to end, if I you know, don't break this board on the first try. Or maybe my sparring partner gets more points than I do. The world didn't end I didn't die. It's okay to not be perfect. And in something learning something as picky as a martial art in a weird way, that started to curb my perfectionism that I had, I was so tough on myself and all these other areas in my life.
Mat Lock
Yeah, perfect timing resonates deeply I have to say, at an interest that the celebrating the triumphs and mini wings are the terminology we would use. But the triumphs? Is that something you have found yourself doing more in your non taekwondo life as a result of learning the power of that and the benefit of that within taekwondo?
Melanie Gibson
Yes, I think so. I think it's helped me regulate my emotions and have a clear perception of the world around me. So I'll give a good example that that is in the book without going into too much detail is that a certain situation ends and in the past, I would have just completely fallen apart crying my eyes out miserable for days, emotional roller coaster. And while I was sad, and I was disappointed, I think I said the like the tsunami of tears never came is that I just kind of looked back on this somewhat setback, it was actually a good thing, you know, in the end that this, this thing ended. But I look back and like, oh, that's the thing that happened. But you know, life goes on. And I still have myself. I still have taekwondo. I still can, I started to rely on myself instead of all these external pieces of validation. And so I learned to take disappointment better, instead of throwing a tantrum like a little kid, or thinking the world was going to end I could just think, okay, you know, that was a setback, but things are going to get better. Sun is still going to come up tomorrow, I can still go about my day, I still have my responsibilities. So you just have to keep keep going.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. valuable lessons, aren't they? And so I'm interested, you mentioned that in the last year, you've been handling managing the eating disorder. Again, now that was something you mentioned back in your childhood. Is that some it's been with you consistently from childhood? Or?
Melanie Gibson
I think so. Um, yeah. And and you know, when you're in denial about it so long, it's easy to say, Oh, it wasn't so bad. I and I used to tell myself, I don't have an eating disorder. I just kind of have poor body image and disordered thinking about food. But no, I had a full blown eating disorder. It started around the time I was 13. And it was like, just a switch got flipped. And all of a sudden, I thought, Oh, I don't like my body. I need to do things to change it. It's like I turned 13. And all of a sudden, the shape of my body mattered. And it kind of ebbed and flowed over the years, depending on what was going on in my life. Now, Taekwondo has been great martial arts have been great, but we've all been through a rough year was 2020 and 2021. And that set me back that set my mental health back, I had a major injury. And that's a whole other experience that'll change your life and change your mental health. But at the beginning of this year, we had a couple of difficult things happening. We had our what we call Snowbird, here in Texas or snowpocalypse, we had this horrible ice storm, and I won't go into all of that. Yes, in Texas, it was very bizarre. It was it was freezing temperatures and Houston, which is tropical, really. So and the frustrating thing was I won't get too political here, but it's on its own power grid as opposed to the rest of the country. And we have very similar government that is very greedy and corrupt. And so they they shut off, they have rolling blackouts. And so some people were without power for days, all this stuff, it was very traumatic. I was so worried about the pipes bursting. I live in a second floor condo, so I was worried about flooding my neighbors. And so for some reason, that was very traumatic to me. Meanwhile, in my job in this healthcare company, there were a couple of big projects we had to do. Now that's normal, you know, that's life in the corporate world. But it was almost this frantic energy around it, like, we got to do this. Now we got to do this. Now we got to do this now. And so and you throw in the mix of the unknown of a pandemic, which is hugely stressful on a healthcare organization, so that the winter storm, recovering from an injury not being able to move around, I started restricting food. And that was my way of dealing with it. And my anxiety shot through the roof, I started kind of having bipolar mood cycling, which I hadn't had in a long time. So I finally started seeking mental health or mental health professional help, again, which is, which is fine, you know, we go through phases where we need it. And the psychologist said, you know, I think you have an eating disorder. And I was like, but what are you talking about, because I've admitted to restricting food, obsessively weighing myself tracking all of it on my phone and tracked my weight every day and how much time I exercised. And so it was really one of the best things to happen to me, because I could finally admit that I had this health condition. When I got diagnosed with bipolar disorder and depression and anxiety. 10 years ago, that was kind of scary. But it was also freeing in a way, because now you can see what you're dealing with, you could see the monster, they came out of the closet, and you can see what you're dealing with. And with the eating disorder, when I finally admit, I have an eating disorder, and it's controlling my life. Then we saw the monster that we could do battle with. And so I've had successful recovery since then, finally admitting that this is what I'm dealing with, instead of just being in denial and pushing it off and pretending that it's not there. I'm continuing to use those unhealthy coping skills and behaviors. So you know, Taekwondo wasn't magical, it helped a lot. Had I not done it, I'd be in a much worse place than I am now. But you know, I still have to, internally make sure I'm coping in healthy ways. And using the tools that I've learned. Even Taekwondo is not the external force that can save me I really had to learn how to save myself from these situations.
Mat Lock
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. And in case anyone was, yeah, I don't think there were but it would, but in case anyone was thinking, Oh, it's a silver bullet. That's not the case at all. I mean, it's just giving you it's a very physical sport, to audit, I imagine a great community to be a part of, and as you say, very supportive and a safe place to fail and all of those things. I mean, that's all invaluable. It's just part of the story, isn't it? As part of
Melanie Gibson
the story, yeah, you have to still keep doing the inner work on yourself. And in fact, I have an article coming out on the website, martial journal next month. It's just kind of a collective of martial arts writers online and I pose the question, can you be addicted to your martial art? So as much as taekwondo has helped me and yes, the book is a great story, you have to be careful that you're not you don't become so dependent on that thing. That you know, that's, that is the thing that's responsible for your happy mood, or for having a good day and all that you still have to do that work inside yourself. Independent of your job, your relationship, the hobby that you love, it still has to come from within. And that's something I've had to learn over time. Taekwondo has been the thing it's taken me from way down here to way up here and close to the top of the mountain, but I still have to get myself there.
Mat Lock
Yeah, absolutely. I listen to a great podcast recently with a ritual, if you're familiar with ritual, but great, the ritual podcast Excellent. He was chatting with a doctor all about dopamine nation issues, her book, they were discussing, and he's certainly the reforming alcoholic. And I think a little bit of substance abuse predominant alcoholic, was, was his his thing, let's say and he became very much into Ultra distance triathlon Ultra distance running. And he said, today, even today, a number of people there what have you just replaced one addiction for another? And he said in terms of feeding that addictive need for routine and focus? Sure, not no debate there. But it's an addiction to something that's not harmful, as opposed to, in his case, alcohol. And so for those who don't have an addictive personality, for sure. And yeah, similar similar paths to withdrawal, absolutely fell into the world of endurance sport, as opposed to going down the path of probably enjoying alcohol too much and so on and liberally into drugs. I never went down that path. So I'm not making that claim at all. But I had the possibility of doing that. And so went down and chose a path of sport that would just consume my life and mean that I didn't possibly have the chance to go down the other path. But But I think that's the key, isn't it? The fact that it's not even if it is the addictive nature of it, or that your addictive personality latches on to in this case, taekwondo, my case, ultra insurance stuff, if it's if it's not a harmful endeavor, if there's no downside to that endeavor, only upside then hey, is there a problem with that?
Melanie Gibson
I think it's okay. And maybe it's recognizing that I'm probably always going to have an addictive personality or tendency about me, so why not feed it with something healthy, and then try to take those good feelings. I mean, I can't duplicate the that shoot of dopamine when you're in a sparring match, you're just your adrenaline's running, and somebody is trying to hit you in the face, you're trying to hit them in the face. So I can't I can't completely duplicate that sitting in front of my computer or something. But I can think about those life lessons and think about how I can persevere through tough times. So I've spent the most of this year not practicing much taekwondo because of a knee injury. But I still think about some of those mental benefits of Taekwondo, like, the community that I still try to stay in touch with while I'm recovering, or just the mental perseverance, sometimes reminding yourself that thinking, Well, you know, let's say if you're a marathon runner, I ran 26.2 miles, if I can do that, I can do anything. I remember the first time because I did long distance running for a while. I ran 10 miles. And I since did half marathons and stuff. So I've run more miles than that. But that is one of my proudest moments, because I remember thinking, I can run 10 miles, I can do anything. And that stayed with me, I don't really run much anymore. But that feeling has stayed with me. And as I thought about that, during difficult times, like you ran 10 miles, that's a big deal. Not a lot of people do that. So that's something taekwondo has given me too. Like, I tested for Black Belt. I've thought teenage boys half my age and twice my size. And I live to tell the tale. So yeah, it's if I'm going to be addicted to something, why not something as great as that?
Mat Lock
Amen. Absolutely. I can only agree. Now I'm, I'm interested. And it's not self serving. But in my book, lead by example, Chapter Four focuses very much on the journey of a female athlete everyday aspect. And I'm interested that it was it's almost classic, that it was the age 13, that you switch, and you tend, you just had other hobbies, other interests come into your life, and Taekwondo fell away. And the eating disorder started. And it's not uncommon. I mean, it's really common. In fact, for girls, particularly girls of that age, to become very body conscious, I mean, hormones are flowing, lumps and bumps start to appear where they weren't before. For sure, boys may or may not become interesting. Certainly, I think, as you said, caring about the way you looked more. And it's not uncommon a for young girls at that age range to drop out of sport for that reason. But also, a lot of eating disorders tend to be around, they start around that kind of age range. And I'm conscious that our audience, we have a lot of parents. And if you're willing, I'd really appreciate to if you could share what that actually looks like. Someone who's been there to help both parents try and and to be aware, more aware of some of the signs they could look out for, but also to deepen their understanding of why. Why is that occurring? And because I know that some parents I speak to have suffered or have gone through that. And they say, oh, yeah, and what did we do wrong? You know, they themselves they take the responsibility on themselves. For for their child having any eating disorder, I'd love if you could just share a bit more to give a deeper insight, a gift from someone who's been there. And yeah, it has to share that family
Melanie Gibson
and love to help. And I think learning seeking to understand is one of the best things a parent can do now. I kept it a secret from my parents for you know, up until recently. I think if they looked back, in hindsight now that they know, they probably would have noticed some things. But when you have an eating disorder, you can be good at keeping secrets. So unfortunately, parents, you kid maybe keeping secrets from you. It while I did say it's you worry about your appearance. That's really kind of a superficial reason as to why somebody might have an eating disorder. Because if it's just you know, I think even when I started therapy this year as a woman in my 40s, my dad was still kind of trying to be the parent and he said, would you look fine, you're very thin, and he said that as if it were a compliment. And I said, Dad, I have a mental illness. It's a mental illness. It's not just a desire to be skinny, or sometimes boys feel like they have to look very muscular. because boys and men can have eating disorders to it, it goes deeper than that if you treat it as a mental illness and not something centered around vanity or appearance, then you can start tackling it that makes it sound big and scary, which it is. But that's the right way to look at is that it's a mental illness, much of it is very, very focused on perfectionism. So if there are ways maybe for parents to show your kid that it's okay to not be perfect, maybe, you know, it depends on whether into grades or sports or activities is help them in doing these things and, and succeed to a sense, but most of all, have fun, it's not about being perfect, maybe take the pressure off of them, if they're playing certain sports, or, you know, you have to get into this college, you have to do this, you have to do that. Eating disorders like structure. So they may cling to these really high expectations. And that can be dangerous. So I wish I had a magic formula or a magic wand. But I would just say if I could look out for the biggest thing is look out for the perfectionism. And as a parent, maybe do some self reflection and think, am I perpetuating that with my child? Or is there a way I can show them that now, you're fine the way you are? And be open about talking about mental health. So save, they're crying, you're angry, which a lot of teenagers do they go through those changes, don't ridicule them for their feelings, especially boys. So they're going to be volatile emotions. So encourage your child to express how they're feeling. Even if it's something that makes you feel uncomfortable. You know, we want to comfort people, if they're crying or upset and say, Oh, no, it's not that bad. Well, that just just counts how they're feeling. So I could probably talk about this for hours. But I think that would be a thing too, is don't discount the emotions that somebody is having right now. Even if it makes you uncomfortable, listen, seek to understand and talk through it and seek out resources, I grew up in a part of the state where there still are not great mental health resources. It's a rural isolated pro state. So if you happen to live in a small town or an area like that, see what you can find online, see what you can do. Virtually telemedicine is a great thing. So yeah, I can probably, again, talk about this for another two hours. But those would be my things, watch the perfectionism and listen and seek to understand the emotions you're feeling rather than just shutting them down.
Mat Lock
You're a great advice. Clearly. I'm interested that was only recent, relatively recently that you actually shared your secret with your parents interested? What was the catalyst? Why nail or why then if it was recently, and also how that how you approach that conversation?
Melanie Gibson
Well, the catalyst was my so it's, um, I live in the United States where healthcare is expensive. And we have to kind of have to fend for ourselves and pay for it ourselves, whatever employers are gonna help us with. So I was seeking treatment for my depression and other things. And I was going to have these counseling sessions with a nutritionist, they said, Well, they're going to be $150 per session, which I'm fortunate enough, I can afford that. But I was still really outraged because usually, something like that maybe around 30 to $50 Typically, say, a counseling session or something or a visit to a doctor. And so I was so angry. And I was talking to my dad, and and it wasn't a big surprise. I mean, they kind of knew I had problems. And I talked about it in my book. So they knew that I'd had problems over the years, but I don't think any of us have really recognized that I have been officially diagnosed as having an eating disorder. And so my dad was kind of trying to help me said, Well, you're smart, can't you just read books on it and figure out what to eat? And I said, and that's when I finally realized I said, Dad, it's a mental illness, I need professional help. So I haven't talked about it a lot with them, but I'm a lot more open about it. Now. You know, I try to watch the the language that we have, I have a one year old niece, and I've made it clear with my mom and her mother and everybody I said, let's use positive language. When we talk about our bodies and food in front of her even when she can't understand right now, you know, we don't want to say things like, Oh, I ate so much in thanksgiving, I feel so bad about myself, I I better go work off all this food, or Oh, I feel fat in these pants, things like that. Because a child could soak all that in. So I've had to learn the hard way to get through this. But I'd like for my niece to have a better setup in life and more positive role models and more positive language. So hopefully she won't be susceptible to the same things I was.
Mat Lock
hopefully when she the right age where she could, I guess, get her head around. Maybe reading a book would be helpful for her to understand.
Melanie Gibson
I think so she'll she'll say, Emily, why didn't you tell me these things? So, yeah, I mean, when the time comes that she's old enough to talk about that things, those things, I'll be honest with her and say, This is how I felt. And these are some of the things I did. And this is what I did to get better. And if you're feeling that way, I'm a safe person to talk to.
Mat Lock
Well, she'll be very fortunate to have you. Thank you. Absolutely. Melanie, for sure. I guess one thing you mentioned as well, is that you were when it came to your eating and your diet, you're kind of measuring, you know, you weigh yourself daily track what you're eating, track your exercise. And suddenly, you as we're living through this sort of Technic technology, evolution, which is awesome in many ways and enables us to, you know, chat like this when you're in Texas, and I'm just south of Sydney in Australia. So technology can be a wonderful thing. And it can be around sport as well. But it can also be a curse. And more and more these days, you can kind of measure everything. The way direction we seem to be going with tech is that you can measure more and more. I mean, we use the whoop restrap as part of our programs, to track sleep to track heart rate variability to track all sorts of things, wonderful metrics, which can be very useful if they're interpreted correctly and used for good. But the risk is, of course, that it becomes all consuming. And for some people I know, absolutely consumed with tracking what they do. Forever, you know, whatever they do that Garmin seems to be involved in, it's counting this and it's tracking that and there's an app for this and an app for that as part of your recovery from your eating disorder, which obviously is an ongoing process. How have you, what practical steps have you taken to reduce that level of tracking, let's say,
Melanie Gibson
I quit cold turkey. And is it was interesting because I I stopped weighing myself every day. But for a while I didn't tell my nutritionist or my therapist, I was still tracking my exercise. So my iPhone app has a nice little thing where you can scroll and say, Oh, yes, I did Pilates, or I walked or I did this. And so I would have to, you know, make sure it was 25 minutes or 26 minutes are how many laps I swam. And I'm still doing that. And I finally realized I just thought, Oh, I'm still measuring and holding myself to the standard and having a track. And it's not like I even went back and looked at it. It was just some weird kind of security blanket where if I tracked it, then it was real. So I stopped doing that. And I will say the urge to kind of look at the clock when I stop and start some kind of exercise is still there just a little bit. Today, I was doing some exercise, I exercise. And I stopped and did something else. And I went back to do more exercise and Parliament was like, Oh, you better look and see when you stop and start. I was like no, not doing that. So I just stopped. I stopped weighing myself I did once I was having a second knee surgery this year. And I knew they were going to ask me for you know, the anesthesia purposes and all that. So I weighed myself before that happened. And I hadn't done it since then I'm very curious. But I also just know how that will make me feel. And I think for me, part of it was just let it you know, being patient and letting time do its job. But then also, I saw the immediate benefits of eating full meals. My problem was that they called an atypical anorexia. So I was at a somewhat healthy weight. And I didn't really have a lot of medical problems, but I was severely restricting food, I was doing all of those perfectionist habits, the mental health part of it was there. So the anxiety and all that. So I started eating normally because I wanted to commit to getting better. And it was just like a light went on. I thought, well, if I'd known all this time, how much better I would feel I would have stopped starving myself years ago. So I had that positive reinforcement of just, you know, my body has changed a little bit. But mentally I felt so much better. So I thought, I mean, I know what I could do right now to lose some of the weight that I've gained. But I don't want to go back to feeling that way. It felt so bad. So I just have the positive reinforcement that my body is telling me they're like, Hey, you see how good this feels? Let's keep doing this. It's kind of the best motivation, isn't it? It really is something all I had to do is eat three squares meals and two snacks a day. Well, I wish I mean, I knew but I didn't want to do it.
Mat Lock
And when you say your body's changed too little that one sentence could hide a whole myriad of emotions couldn't fit in. And I guess it's an agenda as a general question. It applies to all of us, I think but to what standard? Do we hide ourselves in terms of Are statics. So when you say your body's changed a bit, almost as a byproduct of this conversation, that was a line that you used? What do you mean by that?
Melanie Gibson
You know, that may still be the eating disorder talking, it may be like, Uh huh, you're not, you don't look the same anymore. Therefore, that is bad. So I have to be careful and watch my language, because what I'd really like to say is, well, I've gained weight, or I've got my voice has gotten bigger things like that. But just kind of recognizing that, you know, I am getting older too. So just recognizing that your body changes all the time. And that's not a bad thing. And so I think it's kind of self convincing myself that it's not a bad thing that my body may have changed a little bit, which nobody else has noticed, but me. So it also shows me how much we scrutinize ourselves. And notice all these little details about our bodies that nobody else is paying attention to you no one else cares. It doesn't reflect on who I am as a person. And I've had to remind myself and my therapist remind me to, you know, I didn't like myself when I was at my lowest weight. I didn't like myself, I wasn't happy. I wasn't satisfied with who I was or what I looked like. So I could drop whatever, whatever, wait a day now and go back to the way that I was when I was hating myself. So who wants to do that?
Mat Lock
Absolutely. And for anyone listening to this and thinks I'm being a bit, digging a little too far with my questions. Melanie gave me permission to just go wherever the conversation took us.
Melanie Gibson
You have my full permission to do.
Mat Lock
Absolutely. So I certainly wasn't psychoanalyzing anything in particular. He said it was just interesting. It's interesting as well, that you've you say, Oh, I would I want to go back to feeling crappy. But of course, I wouldn't say people don't notice, you know, what's interesting for me is when I was at the deepest, sort of biggest phase of my ultra endurance stuff, I stripped some body weight. And that was just a byproduct, for sure it was but I hadn't quite got it right a few times, and was too skinny and unhealthy. So nine, I could see that it wasn't an intention. And then I changed my diet and try and try and find my way in terms of what's the happy balance. But since I haven't been doing the ultra insurance stuff, most people in my life, and particularly those overseas, why an MC so often, that they comment, they go cheese, you look so much better now than you did two or three years ago, and all that stuff. And it's funny, as I felt my best. Then, when I was my leanest, I felt great. I felt kind of bouncy and ready to go to anything every day. So I think I found a healthy balance. It wasn't that I was making me sick. But the perception of other people. For what it's worth, is that actually, I look healthier now than I did back then when I my body composition was quite different. So it's not so much that people don't notice. But actually people might. Yeah, I've seen as a positive when we go, you know, put a bit of weight back on. It's interesting for me at the time when and I was quite conscious of my weight the way I looked. But I think it was because I knew I got it wrong a few times and gone way too skinny, and unhealthy. So and so it was always interesting for me, even their big guy like, Yeah, you look so much better now. And so it's not that they don't notice often people are just looking out for our best interest. And they certainly don't care at the level we do. For sure they're not looking at, you know that most of them don't see the naked as in front of the mirror. And of course, whenever we look in the mirror, our eyes tend to go to the bit where least happy with what we were least satisfied about, let's say, but people don't do that. And that is something that we just have to manage for ourselves, isn't it and find balance in it. But I'm certainly glad that you're certainly seemed to be well, well down that path of having having taken control regained control of that, and have much more insight around it. And self reflection, which is obviously having a very positive impact in your life.
Melanie Gibson
It's a good feeling.
Mat Lock
Yeah, good and which is, which is awesome. Now, I'm conscious of time. The book, tell us a little bit more about the book because I certainly would love to help people get their hands on a copy of your book. If what we're discussing, and your story is resonating with people then of course naturally the book is a great place to go. And I think most people understand in our audience that whenever we're talking about any of our books, none of us have JK Rowling and ever so making millions of dollars selling our books, it's a genuine desire to share a story and I speak Yeah, with experience from that to the books not about making money but it is a way of sharing your journey your Insights, your learnings, and the more people we can get them into the hands of therefore, this is resonating with the better. So I'm kicking and screaming A Memoir of madness and martial arts. Big picture. What does the book What's the journey the book takes us on.
Melanie Gibson
The journey is a mental health journey. And so I will say I love all the feedback that I've gotten from people. And it's great when fellow martial artists read it. But I like it even more when I have somebody say, you know, I don't really care about martial arts. I'm not into Taekwondo, but your story of mental health recovery really resonated with me. And that's who I'm trying to reach. More numbers are always little slices of life. And so yes, you're going to learn about Taekwondo and martial arts and kind of the ins and outs of that, but more so you're going to see a person having a reckoning with their mental illness and doing things to change the way they approach it. And I think that's a universal story. sadness and loneliness are universal feelings, whether you've ever had mental illness or not, a lot of people experienced depression without being diagnosed with depression. So it's a story of finding a way to overcome that and finding a way it doesn't have to be Taekwondo, it could be whatever you want it to be some kind of interest. Maybe a person's religious faith or sport or cooking or whatever that is find that thing that gives you joy. And so that's the story is going from sadness and hopelessness to joy. And I think that's a universal experience many of us have.
Mat Lock
Absolutely, no, thank you. I love the way he described his life lessons from a Thai Diva and master in the making. Very creative. Um, you have a blog as well. Am I right?
Melanie Gibson
I do. Yes, that's what you were the Tiguan, diva partners, we were reading. I wish I'd call it timeline diva. The blog is called Little Black Belt. So like little black dress, great accessory, but it's called Little Black Belt. And so it's just started as kind of an online diary when I started doing Taekwondo training started at around 2014. So I wasn't a black belt at that point. And I was having all these insights and thoughts and ideas about life in general and what I was learning and I just had to get it out of my head. So I started the blog. And eventually, I realized I had enough of a story to write a book. And that's how that all started. And the blog is still going today.
Mat Lock
Yeah. Fantastic course. We're gonna put the link to everything we're talking about in the show notes. Of course, Mellon in interest of time, we're gonna have to wrap it up. But um, is there anything you want some final thought you'd love to share with our audience? I mean, I appreciate you've been very, very generous and vulnerable and candid. In our conversation. I've enjoyed it immensely. Like you said earlier, we could talk about it for hours, to be honest, fascinating subjects. But is there anything, any sort of final thought you'd like to leave with the audience? Yeah, my
Melanie Gibson
final thought is being an advocate for your mental health. So speak up for yourself in your personal life in your professional life. Mental health is health is just as important as what we do with our bodies. So speak up for your mind and your emotional illness.
Mat Lock
Fantastic, thank you so much money. I mean, I guess they have it. So thanks very much for listening. And if you've enjoyed this, please go ahead and leave us a review on whichever platform you're using. It really does help more than you can now and if you're interested in grabbing a copy of my book, lead by example, which talks about how you can unleash your potential at work and in life, I'd love to send a copy to you so if you go to the impact project.io And take a dive down that rabbit hole, it will be on your doorstep in there telling my thanks again to Melanie. We'll be posting as I said all of the various links to her book kicking and screaming and her blog and her website in the show notes. And until next time, of course as always Be brave, have fun, and make yourself busy having an impact on the world. Every good stuff.
